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 choking #14294603/08/09 08:37 PM | | SDSOP Junior Member | | OP Junior Member Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 1 | How long can a wrestler be choked before the ref. should stop the match? Happened to my son yesterday at Hays,he tapped out, the ref. said he didn't see it. He passed out and the EMT'S we called to the mat. Scary for all of us! |
| Re: choking[Re: SDS] #14296003/08/09 10:02 PM | Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 401 Member | Member Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 401 | i didnt know there was a tap out rule in wrestling...however if a kid is actually being choked the ref should see it and stop it before the kid passes out... "Everything we do should be for the future of our children." |
| Re: choking[Re: Crash99] #14296803/08/09 10:49 PM | Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,443 Member | Member Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,443 | SECTION 7
Illegal and Potentially Dangerous Holds/Maneuvers
1. The safety of the wrestlers is paramount. Any and all holds/maneuvers used in such a way as to endanger life and limb are illegal. Any act that goes beyond aggressive wrestling becomes unnecessary roughness. There are some holds/maneuvers that are legitimate, but because of their nature are potentially dangerous. It is, therefore, important and necessary that illegal acts be thoroughly understood. Illegal acts may be classified as either unnecessary roughness or illegal holds/maneuvers.
2. Illegal holds/maneuvers include, but are not limited to:
a. Body Slam.
b. The salto or suplay or any variation which meets slam criteria.
c. An intentional drill or a forceful fall back.
d. Pulling back as opposed to grasping the thumb or one, two or three fingers.
e. a double underhook snap back from the standing position;
f. the hammerlock above the right angle;
g. the twisting hammerlock along with lifting the elbow off the back in a hammerlock situation;
h. any headlock in which the arms or hands are locked around the opponents head without encircling an arm (elbow or above) or leg (except in the guillotine after near-fall criteria has been met or ¾ Nelson);
i. straight head scissors (even though an arm is included);
j. full nelson;
k. holds putting pressure in the throat and/or carotid artery;
l. twisting kneelock taken against the joint and/or away from the body;
m. keylock;
n. overhead double arm bar;
o. locking the hands behind the back in a double arm bar from the front;
p. neck wrench;
q. front, quarter nelson with the chin;
r. leg block(cut-back);
s. overscissors when pressure is applied against the joint which may cause hyperextension;
t. bending, twisting or forcing the head or any limb beyond its normal limits of movement;
u. back bow;
v. figure 4 around the body or both legs;
w. chicken wing with pressure toward the shoulder, parallel to the long axis of the body;
x. hand(s) in the eye(s) or raking the eye(s);
y. any hold used for punishment;
z. any hold with pressure exerted over the opponents mouth, nose, throat or neck that restricts breathing or circulation; and
aa. a back flip from the standing position. |
| Re: choking[Re: RichardDSalyer] #14297303/08/09 11:15 PM | Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 401 Member | Member Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 401 | Thanks richard for pointing out the rules regarding illegal and potentially dangerous moves. I just want to clarify my own original statement. I am not saying the kid wasn't actually being held in a choke/illegal hold, I wasn't there to witness the act. I also know that sometimes a kid will be wrestling and tell you "I can't breathe" well from having a bit of medical training if someone tells you they can't breath, they are talking so they truly are breathing. A good tight waist can make it feel like you can't breathe yet you are breathing. If a kid is being held in an illegal hold or being choked out the official on the mat should stop the illegal/potentially dangerous move if there is one being applied. Please can anyone clarify with me about a tap out rule. I have never seen any such rule in any wrestling rulebook. "Everything we do should be for the future of our children." |
| Re: choking[Re: RichardDSalyer] #14297503/08/09 11:16 PM | Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,377 Member | Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,377 | Richard, I appreciate you putting the rules up on the forum. How many of us have witnessed a wrestler getting choked on the mat? As long as kids are being taught to ride up around the neck and use moves that involve an arm around the neck, we will continue to see it happen. It has been something that I have seen being used more and more from the riding position. It reminds me of the submission holds being used in MMA and UFC type matches. I am now seeing another wrestling technique being used by more wrestlers than in years past that also looks like a submission move (the body scissors). When used together, they are even worse. I am sure some of you reading this, maybe many of you, will find my thoughts on this to be way off base. I just think that some of our young wrestlers are learning to do moves that don't teach them how to wrestle the right way (kind of like the kid you see coming out to throw the headlock every time they are on their feet). |
| Re: choking[Re: ReDPloyd] #14297803/08/09 11:26 PM | Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 180 Member | Member Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 180 | This young man was being choked and the body scissors applied all at the same time. |
| Re: choking[Re: Crash99] #14301503/09/09 10:09 AM | Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 138 Member | Member Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 138 | Originally Posted By: Crash99 Please can anyone clarify with me about a tap out rule. I have never seen any such rule in any wrestling rulebook.
Rule 6-4-4 "Any coach of the contestant or the contestant has the perogative to default a match to the opponent at any time by informing the referee" In other words if a kid wants to quit or "taps out", then they have the choice to do that. |
| Re: choking[Re: wrestlingspectat] #14303603/09/09 02:22 PM | Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,934 Member | Member Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,934 | Here is the issue on this rule, it doesn't indicate how you are informing the official of your intent to default. Tapping Out is a term made more popular as of recent due to MMA and it being a form of submission. Note however, that term, nor action is something that to my knowledge is used in the sport of wrestling via rule definition. I have seen officials give a "cry baby" penalty for this, and others consider it an act of defaulting the match. I have also seen this applied as a time out for the wrestler and only the rules applying to time outs being applied. I suspect that this will be further clarified in the future within the rules as it is becoming more of an issue. I will state, if I am officiating, I will and have, considered this a default action. I have also been supported, and corrected by head officials for this action in various situations. Also a note here, in some states, they are a little more liberal as to the interpretation as to what is a "choke out." Another note, it only takes a few seconds to put a wrestler out, so coaches, and officials have to be on the look out for moves that do what Richard illustrated from the rules above. |
| Re: choking[Re: Mike Furches] #14308803/09/09 07:04 PM | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 61 Member | Member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 61 | It is sad. Some officisls just cant get down low enough to see.Some dont care and still some are just blind.
Than there is the flip side the guys that miss very very few things at all.I saw some real bad calls last sunday.Head gear pulled around,Kid was doing a gramby roll mid roll he gets pinned wile he was still moving.Next match the kid was held in a 3/4 stack yelling I done,he didnt get pinned but saved by the clock. Sorry to hear your boy got choked out. |
| Re: choking[Re: Mike Furches] #14309003/09/09 07:08 PM | | teacherof1 Junior Member | Junior Member Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 7 | Thanks for all the clarification on this. My family is new (4th year) to kids wrestling and have had some very fortunute success with our son. We have also, more importantly and with the help of some awesome coaches, been able to give and show many, many important life lessons through wrestling. This post, however, brings me to the most disappointing and unbelievable thing I have witnessed yet.
At Hays on Saturday in the 8&U 67# class, we, along with many others watched a young man, with the coaching of who I believe is his dad, avoid being pinned on two occassions by screaming that his back was hurt, being allowed to restart on the bottom and ultimately win both matches by a single point. In the case of my son, only 3 points were awarded, which I understand should have been 4 (3 for back and 1 for "tap out". Anyway, I have no problem at all with the official for the mistaken amount of points. Mistakes happen. My problem is the parent who was literally pointing to his back and got the child to start yelling. I mean he was dead in the water both times with little time left in the match and ended up winning by a single point. He tried it again in the championship but complaints had been so many by fans and coaches from several clubs who witnessed this that it didnt work and he ended up in 2nd place. What are we teaching our kids!!!!!!!! Now I see the same child has, with im sure the benefit of these two extra wins, been given the number one seed and a bye at a sub-district.
Anyway, back to the rule. I think it is a great rule with the safety of the wrestler in mind and as long as it is used within its means, fine. But parents....PLEASE don't use this as a way to avoid defeat. Someone may get hurt one of these days from someone else crying wolf too much and it will be very very sad. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Again thanks for the clarification of the rule and sorry for the long post.
By the way, again I am in no way argueing an officials call or how any of this was handled by anyone other than the father and/or coach of this wrestler. Thank You. |
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