New
Jul 27, 2022 5:04 PM
#1
Miserable_Crow
Offline
Aug 2013
1
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
Jul 27, 2022 5:11 PM
#2
KingPeaceM2
Offline
Jul 2021
79
For those who read all that u a legend
Jul 27, 2022 5:15 PM
#3
Samyeaager
Offline
Dec 2021
168
KingPeaceM2 said:
For those who read all that u a legend
nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend
Jul 27, 2022 5:16 PM
#4
ryzxgum
Offline
Apr 2022
4959
i'm sorry man i don't have the attention span to read all that, i'm sure it was great tho. big ups ayanokoji
Jul 27, 2022 5:16 PM
#5
KingPeaceM2
Offline
Jul 2021
79
Samyeaager said:
KingPeaceM2 said:
For those who read all that u a legend
nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend
Very true(char limit)
Jul 27, 2022 5:21 PM
#6
Ulises1264
Offline
Jul 2021
302
He literally just wants to make memories in these 3 years of school and discover New emotions.
Jul 27, 2022 5:25 PM
#7
atl_nal
Offline
Mar 2021
160
bro I can't believe I seriously read all that , it was really interesting though I'll take this in mind when I watch the episode that dropped on Monday
Jul 27, 2022 5:31 PM
#8
Kazari29
Offline
Jan 2021
482
Welp, this guy really convinced me to regain that hope I had for COTE. If only Lerche couldn't f*ck up anymore...
Jul 27, 2022 5:40 PM
#9
nayu_shirakawa
Offline
Feb 2021
224
i don’t have the patience to read 10 paragraphs, but it probably has some important stuff there. i’m just gonna enjoy the rest of the season.
Jul 27, 2022 6:26 PM
#10
mattisonc
Offline
May 2022
9
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
Thank you for this info, I was wondering what was up with this character I thought He seemed kinda distant from his emotions and the scenes from when He was little made me go what is his story?
Jul 27, 2022 6:52 PM
#11
pris_sucks
Offline
Jan 2021
171
ur a king man i’m a LN reader and i read all of that lmao essay on point anyways yessss like his relationship with manabu OMG BEST THING EVER he acknowledged him and wished for things and it was like so nice to read that yk like it was some truly genuine (idk how to spell that lol) feelings
Jul 27, 2022 8:11 PM
#12
Jamil10
Offline
Apr 2021
211
I was reading it until u started writing spoilers
Jul 27, 2022 8:20 PM
#13
RobertsahDHDA
Offline
Aug 2020
1536
Samyeaager said:
KingPeaceM2 said:
For those who read all that u a legend
nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend
I always thought they were joking, but wow. Found the people that this thread here is talking about: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2030259
Keep scrolling
Jul 27, 2022 9:54 PM
#14
Voidackerman
Offline
Jun 2019
61
I read all of it haha
Jul 27, 2022 10:46 PM
#15
Headpatts
Offline
Dec 2020
1482
Samyeaager said:
KingPeaceM2 said:
For those who read all that u a legend
nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend
fr, i don't like it when people say " i am not reading it" then just don't and piss off without writing anything on a thread that you didn't read.
Jul 27, 2022 10:47 PM
#16
Neko_Bernkastel
Offline
May 2021
37
Yeah that's one of the real reasons why Kiyotaka Ayanokoji and Kei Karuizawa only belongs to each other and no one else, both are traumatized people they need each other.
Jul 27, 2022 11:05 PM
#17
kiyogawa
Offline
Feb 2022
23
kycnui said:
Welp, this guy really convinced me to regain that hope I had for COTE. If only Lerche couldn't f*ck up anymore...
Just go read the novels at this point. Expecting lerche not to f*ck up is like expecting pedophiles not to grooms minors
Jul 28, 2022 2:36 AM
#18
kay84
Offline
Dec 2020
73
thank you so much for this. you're a literal legend
Jul 28, 2022 3:09 AM
#19
_Mehraan_
Offline
Dec 2021
322
Very good explanation I want to show this to my friend but he won't bother.. :(
Jul 28, 2022 3:56 AM
#20
fw-1411
Offline
Jan 2022
36
Thats some very valuable information for anime onlys like me and also fantastically written.
I don't understand how people can have difficulties getting through some slightly longer texts if they are written this good.
Jul 28, 2022 6:00 AM
#21
nhc9
Offline
Mar 2020
712
Dude Thank you so much! I guess I should read the LN after all
Jul 28, 2022 6:13 AM
#22
YonedaLemma
Offline
Feb 2021
30
Thank you, you now made me actually interested in this show.
Jul 28, 2022 8:18 AM
#23
Kylixer
Offline
Dec 2019
89
Long read, but definitely worth it
Jul 28, 2022 9:58 AM
#24
NaughtySempai
Offline
Apr 2020
659
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
i would like to add few things and correct one
no
he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool
he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything
he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE
he actially have 2 mindsets
one who wants to be normal human
and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning)
that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei)
Jul 28, 2022 10:46 AM
#25
Mamontt
Offline
Jul 2021
44
The fact that ayano wants to change is actually interesting and i hoped it would be revealed later by ok.
Jul 28, 2022 3:04 PM
#26
INSANELYWP
Offline
Jun 2021
1293
NaughtySempai said:
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
i would like to add few things and correct one
no
he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool
he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything
he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE
he actially have 2 mindsets
one who wants to be normal human
and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning)
that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei)
yeah i was kinda confused on why op didn’t mention this fact. his white room mindset makes it so he has to win. he will do everything in his power to win. however he hates this and is searching to lose. because if he loses, he proves the white room and his father wrong. which is ultimately his final goal. current ln is kinda cool cause he’s basically trying to nurture horikitas class into one that can defeat him.
Jul 28, 2022 3:06 PM
#27
CandyRagi
Offline
Nov 2020
828
same the main problem that I have with anime is kiyotaka's character.
like he litrally looks like a fatherless edgy 13 year old kid in anime.
"I don't know about you
But I'm feeling 22
Everything will be alright if
You keep me next to you
You don't know about me
But I'll bet you want to
Everything will be alright if
We just keep dancing like we're 22, 22"
Jul 28, 2022 4:39 PM
#28
EJ_99
Offline
Jan 2021
39
I read it. I read it but I just looked at words and didn’t bother to understand it. So whatever point you are trying to get across (if there even was a point) I totally understand it
Jul 28, 2022 5:55 PM
#29
Synnll
Offline
Jun 2017
53
Thanks for the clarification, u rocks !
Jul 28, 2022 7:19 PM
#30
elijahkami
Offline
Feb 2019
8
i feel like this is pretty heavy spoilers to be fair, feel like how the anime portrays his character is on purpose and isn't direct. you are supposed to guess and slowly start to see his real goals and what he really wants and how his character progresses throughout the anime
Jul 28, 2022 7:25 PM
#31
Stacias
Offline
Aug 2021
10441
thats pretty cool man.
Jul 28, 2022 8:42 PM
#32
shiro-seishun
Offline
Jul 2021
69
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
Jul 29, 2022 7:38 AM
#33
kotosugu
Offline
Apr 2022
207
Thank god someone said it, I hated all the anime watchers who misunderstood him and loving him from the wrong reasons
Jul 29, 2022 10:07 AM
#34
slugdirsh
Offline
Feb 2021
122
I feel like I just had the entire series spoiled to me… oh well I guess. I’ll be looking at Ayano in new light from here on.
Jul 30, 2022 2:21 AM
#35
NaughtySempai
Offline
Apr 2020
659
INSANELYWP said:
NaughtySempai said:
i would like to add few things and correct one
no
he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool
he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything
he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE
he actially have 2 mindsets
one who wants to be normal human
and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning)
that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei)
yeah i was kinda confused on why op didn’t mention this fact. his white room mindset makes it so he has to win. he will do everything in his power to win. however he hates this and is searching to lose. because if he loses, he proves the white room and his father wrong. which is ultimately his final goal. current ln is kinda cool cause he’s basically trying to nurture horikitas class into one that can defeat him.
yeah sadly anime is not able to show these traits of ayanokoji
which causing many anime only to mistake him as cold hearted overpowered one dimensional character
Jul 30, 2022 2:27 AM
#36
Swagernator
Offline
Apr 2016
18617
r/im14andthisisdeep is something you frequent often ain't it ?
Jul 30, 2022 9:17 AM
#37
memili98
Offline
Dec 2021
1
I understood it better now😅🥲
Jul 30, 2022 10:36 AM
#38
ReynaldyKwok
Offline
Dec 2019
32
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
Thanks for sharing this with us too, my attention span is probably less than a goldfish but I can finish it without a problem. Not praising you but your literature skill is great!
Jul 30, 2022 1:39 PM
#39
Jojomamabizarre1
Offline
Feb 2021
48
If only a high-budget studio came along to invest in a faithful COTE adaptation of the SECOND HIGHEST RATED LIGHT NOVEL on mal. Instead, you have giant studios like A-1 and Shaft adapting poorly written shows like Nisekoi and Sols with no substance. Oh well, at least it wont be as badly done as Shield hero season 2, god rest its soul.
Jojomamabizarre1Jul 30, 2022 1:53 PM
Jul 30, 2022 7:16 PM
#40
Ionliosite2
Offline
Jan 2021
3065
I'm sure I saw something similar in Facebook just today XD. He wanting to change doesn't take away the fact that he is still edgy for the very easons he is the way he is, no matter how much he hates it.
Jul 31, 2022 5:04 PM
#41
Derpthenerd
Offline
Aug 2020
3
This is good to know... but I wish they gave him SOME human traits before they made him into what he is. Watching the same edgy asshole for two seasons without any change starts to drag on because by making him into the equivalent of a machiavellian corpse the watcher has very little to empathize with. Unless you have a god/superiority complex. More power to you if so.
Nov 21, 2022 1:13 AM
#42
SofiaBulga
Offline
Oct 2008
8484
Unfortunately if I had read all this, it would have done away with what I liked about the MC. So rather than letting you ruin Ayanokouji for me, I'll let s3 do it instead.
If what you've written is true, than the anime will become less appealing for me and the MC will be the main reason for it. I hope you're wrong, but thank you for taking the time to defend the show.
May 25, 2023 4:26 AM
#43
Wladis21
Offline
May 2023
1
Miserable_Crow said:
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is.
There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy.
-these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation.
The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism.
The long explanation is:
Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself.
So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself.
On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change.
The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human.
Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.I remember myself not wanting to impress anyone in high school with my high knowledge and everytime I would get a big assignment to write essays,I would ease my way out of it because I didn’t want to waste my energy on such little things,also because I knew I have a reliable service I can handle it to.I even remember the name of the site even after 4 years from that day: https://assignmentbro.com/pay-for-assignment This is one of my best findings from high school times.Hope someone will find it useful as I did.
Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira?
So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live.
I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others.
But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself...
And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more!
Wladis21Jun 1, 2023 4:25 AM
Aug 1, 2023 2:34 PM
#44
Asudox
Offline
Oct 2021
577
Oh, that makes total sense.
Didn't know the adaptation of the anime was this bad. Guess the reason why he's somewhat normal in the manga is because of the LNs way of presenting his actual feelings. I mean, you gotta make the MC OP and badass in a anime with a school setting with geniuses, or no great amounts of profit I guess. This really motivates me to read the LN, though I would want to see whether the manga also has a sh*t adaptation or not. I am not really keen on reading LNs that much.
Thanks for the clarification.
yes.
Apr 7, 2:22 AM
#45
ToG25thBaam
Offline
Jun 2011
13744
Though some of this is pretty obvious for the people that paid attention to the show. Ayanokoji has repeatedly wondered if he could truly change his ways. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
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